MSNBC host Chris Matthews: What happened in the cockpit?
This is a hard ball. Good evening.
I'm Chris Matthews from Washington.
This is the center of a mysterious incident that crashed over the Alps today.
Why can't the pilot land safely on a plane?
If it's a pressurized emergency, why don't they just drop to a lower height?
Why are they going to the mountains?
Four passengers and six crew members took flight 9525 of the German wing, an Airbus A32, operated by Lufthansa Airlines, from Barcelona to Germany, 45 minutes after the flight, it hit a remote part of the French Alps.
Well, the plane was cruising at 38,000 feet M this morning at 10: 27 local time.
It began to decline fast but orderly.
In less than 10 minutes, at 10: 40 a. m. , the plane dropped by 30,000 feet, its height was only 6,800 feet, it dropped by 4,000 feet per minute, and then hit a mountain in southern France.
There has never been a distress signal in the cockpit, but the plane's black box has been found and sent to Paris where Air France officials are reviewing it.
French officials told NBC News that we should have an answer tomorrow morning.
NBC News Chief Global Correspondent Bill Neely is near the crash site in France.
Bill, let's find you first.
What is causing this mystery?
What I'm asking is, the plane won't lower the cruising altitude, why are they going into the mountains, etc, etc?
Bill Nelli, NBC Reporter: Yes.
Good evening, Chris.
I mean, it really got the experts very confused, the plane was apparently flying normally in very good weather, this was seen by another Air France pilot-who said the weather was very good-and all of a sudden, it was hard to imagine someone who plunged 30,000 feet of the ship in 10 minutes.
I'm at the rescue headquarters.
As you can see, It's dusk now.
The weather deteriorated slightly.
The search has been suspended until today to start searching for clues and the first light of the deceased.
What we know is the terrible statistics, there are 150 people on board, of which at least 67 are Germans and 45 are Spaniards.
We believe there are some British people on board, with a total of 144 passengers, two pilots and four crew members.
Pilot-the chief pilot is an experienced person.
He has more than 10 years of experience.
The plane itself-it's a bit aging.
It's 24 years old and of course the oldest aircraft in the German wing fleet, but it didn't get routine service until yesterday and it was fully serviced two years ago.
So there's nothing to show what's wrong with the plane itself.
As you said, take off from Barcelona at 10: 00.
Half an hour later, when everyone is relaxed, it is flying at the cruising height.
But the key is
When it started, it just stayed at cruising heights for about 1 to 3 minutes-what you call a steady but fairly fast drop of 3,000 to 4,000 feet per minute, as I said, after 10 minutes of suffering from the people on board it hit the hillside.
The scene there was really bad.
From the helicopter, these white spots are almost like snow. They`re not.
They're the smallest pieces on that plane.
Apparently, nothing bigger than a car was found.
Only a few rescuers have really stood up so far.
But if there is one good thing so far, it is to find one of the two flight data recorders.
Found the cockpit voice recorder.
Obviously, the first priority for these searchers tomorrow is to find a second recorder.
But Chris, it does show that, as I think you said, this mystery may have some answers soon, because, of course, not only can cockpit voice recorders receive what pilots say to each other and the control tower, but there is also any ambient sound from inside the cockpit, anything-for example, a flight attendant came in and said that the main body of the plane had something uncomfortable or unusual.
But, as you said, Chris, at the moment, it's an extraordinary mystery.
Matthews: Thank you so much to NBC's Bill Nili, who is near the crash site in France.
Now with me is Tom Costello of NBC, former chief of staff of the Federal Aviation Administration, Michael goldfab, and Michael Kay, former senior officer of the British air force.
Gentlemen, let me start with my colleague Tom.
Tom, this question has been asked throughout the day-is there a pilot in the cockpit who is incapacitated?
Do we know their condition at the time of the accident-at the beginning of the accident?
NBC correspondent Tom Costello: No, we don't.
The reason everyone asks this question is why you only stay in 38,000 feet for one to three minutes and then, it shows up, in your autopilot program, control at a speed of 4,000 feet to 6,000 feet per minute but drop fast, never turn your mike off during the whole process, never say to air traffic control, we have a problem, maidi, there is no such problem at all.
We have a preliminary, very early report that, in fact, there may be a computer
The encoded information is sent by the transponder for the distress call, but it turns out that is not the case.
As a result, the plane dropped from 38,000 feet to hit the mountain, and there really seemed to be radio silence on the plane.
So this will indicate to some investigators and some pilots that the crew is either busy with any emergency at hand, unable to speak with a microphone, or losing their ability to work, perhaps due to lack of oxygen, maybe because of some kind of smoke incident.
If it's lack of oxygen, if they have decompression events, they are aware of this at 38,000 feet, and it's normal to put on an oxygen mask immediately and tell the people behind you, your passengers, put on their masks and then you drop to 10,000 feet because people can breathe the air at 10,000 feet, so you keep it steady.
So why not?
Why do they continue to decline by more than 10,000 feet?
Is it because, when they-if they realize they have an emergency, they're out of oxygen-in other words, they can't think clearly?
Because the lack of oxygen began soon.
You didn't make a very rational decision at first.
It's almost like you're drunk if you want, and then you lose consciousness.
This is all the areas of speculation, but the reason why people guess this is because these eight
Minutes drop, control drop, but no communication, then fly into a mountain, there are a lot of people who want to know if this is the scene we are looking.
Thank you, Tom.
Let me bring Michael goldfab in.
When I first heard the news this morning, I thought it was air Egypt.
Michael goldfarb, FMR
Chief of Staff of the FAA: Yes.
I don't know why.
This is the condition of our life.
We live in a world of terrorism.
Goldfab: Well, I know the White House says there's no evidence of foul, terrorism or something, but there's-MATTHEWS: Well, there's no evidence, period.
We don't know-we only know-Matthews: What do you think of what Tom just reported-goldfab: Well-Matthews:-Tom Costello, there's a controlled drop?
I mean-Matthews: It's not like-it's not a dive bomb -(CROSSTALK)
Yes, it's confusing for everyone.
But frankly, we don't know what causes it.
Matthews: Yes, we don't know-to what extent the pilots have lost their abilities and where they have lost their abilities.
GOLDFARB: in fact, they also know what's going on if they know.
Are they lost in space?
Matthews: that's it. CROSSTALK)
Matthews: I'm going to Michael Kay.
What do you think, Michael.
It's only a minute now.
Michael Kay FMR
British official: Well, Chris, yes, I want to be in the bird language area. navigate-
The communication section, which is the spell and protocol that pilots instill into them through Simulator practice when they are trained.
What I am confused and confused as an investigator is that the plane dropped from 38,000 feet to below 10,000 in 8 minutes and its average speed dropped from 600 to below 200.
This will keep it at average speed for about 300 to 400 knots, about 5 to 6 miles per minute, and about 40 to 50 miles for more than 8 minutes.
If you track 40 to 50 miles from the impact point, it's the plane between Marseille and Nice.
The mantra about flying a plane is that once you control the plane in an emergency, you turn it to the nearest transfer airport-Matthews: of course.
Kay:-you will move it off the high ground as well.
It doesn't seem to have happened.
The radar tracking continues along the scheduled flight path, which is incredibly confusing because, as Tom has already mentioned-Matthews: OK-KAY:-there is no radio transmission, and now it seems, there is also no transponder transmission for the emergency code (7700.
MATTHEWS: Well, I think we have to get up early tomorrow morning and listen to what's recorded in the box.
I hope we get the answer early tomorrow, not tonight.
Thank you Tom Costello and, as always, my colleagues Michael Goldfarb and Michael Kay.
For the rest of the night, we're going back to the hard ball and adding more politics to our show.
Next, Ted Cruz ran for president, and it was impossible for Democrats to be happier in a strange way.
But Republicans may cause some trouble. Plus, the U. S.
The Supreme Court allowed the law on Wisconsin's voter ID card to come into effect.
What does it mean to enter 2016?
Does it give Republicans an advantage in polls? I think so.
According to The Wall Street Journal, Israel has been monitoring nuclear talks with Iran and then using the information to lobby Congress for a deal.
Our round table tonight, including Bob Woodward.
Finally, let me end the Republican strategy of offsetting demographic change in the country.
This is a place of politics, a hard state. (
Matthews: see who turns to "Obama medical" for medical insurance needs ".
Texas Senator Ted Cruz
Cruz has been one of the loudest critics of "Obama Care", calling it a train wreck and promising to abolish every page of it.
He has been on his wife's health insurance through his job at Goldman Sachs, but since he announced his presidential campaign, she is on leave, so the Cruz family is no longer covered.
So now Cruz says he will have federal communications under "Obama medical" and sign up for health care.
We will be back soon. (
Matthews: Welcome back to hard ball.
Well, he doesn't believe in science.
He tried to undermine every major legislation in the United States. S. Senate.
He presided over the hearing like Joe McCarthy did.
He said the president was educated by the Communist party and wanted to disband the United States. S. government.
This is the disturbing reality of Ted Cruz, who wants to be your next president.
I think he is the problem, not the solution.
New York Republican Congressman Peter King said he would rather jump off the bridge than support Cruz. (
Start Video Editing)REP. PETER KING (R)
New York: He's just a man with a big mouth and no results for me.
CNN anchor wolf blitzer: Would you support him if he were the Republican nominee?
I only hope that day will never come.
I will jump down when we get to that bridge. (END VIDEO CLIP)(LAUGHTER)
Matthews: It's a complicated metaphor!
In any case, Senator Cruz was fascinated by the role of vandals.
Yesterday, he announced a list of government agencies he will get rid of, announcing his candidacy. Here he is. (
Start Video Editing)SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX)
Presidential candidate: Imagine that on 2017, a new president signed legislation to repeal the word "Obama Care! (
Cheers and applause)
Imagine abolishing the IRS! (
Cheers and applause)
Cruz: Imagine abolishing every word of the Common Core! (
Cheers and applause)
Cruz: we will be back to restore this shining city on a hill in the United States! Thank you!
May God bless you! (
Cheers and applause)(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Well, he blessed a group of students there and they were told they had to pay $10 if they didn't show up.
It was an interesting way for him to attract people, very advanced work.
In any case, the "Obama cares" about the IRS, the core of the common may just be the beginning of Cruz's escape.
When he ran for a senator in 2012, he told a group of Tea Party Republicans that the abolition of the IRS was just the beginning. (
Start Video Editing)
Cruz: we need to eliminate unnecessary and constitutional violations!
We need to destroy the Ministry of Education! (
Cheers and applause)
Cruz: we need to eliminate the Ministry of Commerce, the Department of Energy, the National Foundation for the arts! (
Cheers and applause)
I will tell you (INAUDIBLE)
The IRS is eliminated! (
Cheers and applause)(END VIDEO CLIP)
Anyway, Howard Dean is the chairman of the Democratic National Committee.
He was, of course, the governor of Vermont, the candidate for president in 2004.
Perry Bacon is a senior political journalist at NBC.
Gentlemen, I don't know how to cover this guy because he gave us all the information we needed.
He wants to take care of everything. (CROSSTALK)
He voted against everyone's nomination.
He's a black hole. HOWARD DEAN (D-VT), FMR.
Governor, political analyst at MSNBC: Yes, he won't win, but he will be interesting and he will provide a lot of fireworks.
The problem is that for others in the field, they need 15% or 20% of the votes he gets in the primary.
This will somehow distort the field so that he may be nominated by Jeb Bush in the election.
Matthews: So what happens if we let Jeb Bush debate this guy and he has to be his pump in a few months?
Because he's going to chase Bush.
His-there's an article about him today-you know, his mentor, apparently one of the most despicable people you 've ever met, he's from Missouri, named Roe (ph).
You know, the Republican primary will be in trouble again.
I can't see how they run the primary without leaving there, it's really bloody.
Matthews: Yes, I-Perry, that's certainly the problem.
When you spend months on these road travel debates, and there are 20 to 30 debates on national television, this person will be the main character of the show.
If you let Donald Trump in, you might have tworing circus.
But for those of you who have a limited level of madness, those who sound like Scott Walker, it will be difficult-you may not agree with him, but he's not crazy-you'll see people like Jeb Bush in that room-how do you get the attention of these characters?
Perry Bacon, senior nbc political correspondent: I think Jeb Bush will be comfortable.
He has already said that I will run for the election to win the general election. INAUDIBLE)
Lost primary. So (INAUDIBLE)
You're an amnesty, you're an amnesty, and Jeb Bush will say, oh, okay, I think I am.
Real challenge-Matthews: how about you marry a Mexican? (CROSSTALK)
BACON: I don't think he's going to say that! (CROSSTALK)
Matthews:-Say Something-okay, that might be a rough statement, but he will most likely say, I know you have a family problem.
He can put the knife in.
Bacon: he will put the knife in.
I think it's dangerous for Scott Walker because Dean: Right.
I agree with that.
Bacon: Scott Walker wants to be the winner in Iowa, Cruz is pushing him every day, will you abolish business?
What about the State Council?
You can imagine-Matthews: Okay, let me -(CROSSTALK)
I ask you this question.
In the end, don't they want someone to run the government?
Or do they want someone to run the government?
Dean: that's what Republicans do, but the problem is that these people get real traction, and we saw that last time-you know, Romney obviously has the ability to run the government, but before his election, he said something crazy. deportation. DEAN: – self-
Going out of the country, I will veto the DREAM Act because he was pushed by people like Ted Cruz.
In terms of their intelligence, this field is stronger than the last one.
So I think-Matthews: what you mean is that -(CROSSTALK)
Yeah, Cruz is smart.
He's crazy, but he's smart.
Matthews: That's the problem.
I said on the show last night-gentlemen, please check me-I think the heartfelt hatred for Obama is so strong that I think some of them may be ethnic.
I think they just hate this guy.
They hate his politics.
They hate everything about him.
They don't like his family.
They don't like his face.
They don't like anything about him, these people on the right.
They looked at people like Cruz and he said, I hate him more than you do.
Is there an appeal?
Bacon: Oh, of course, I think, especially in Iowa and South Carolina, you know, where do you have these tea party people.
Cruz Matthews: Look, Jeb Bush doesn't hate Obama.
Bacon: but he won't win Iowa for that reason. (CROSSTALK)
Dean: I'm really not thin-I agree with you, that's what the Republicans look like, because the vocal is the one who gets all the media attention.
But I don't think the average Republican has that much hatred, I mean, but it's an important part of the party.
I call it the Republican hate pie.
This is the territory of Ted Cruz, and no one will compete with him.
If this gives him a primary of 15% or 20%, he-or the caucus, or whatever, he may not win, but he will definitely distort the result.
I think it will help Bush. MATTHEWS: (INAUDIBLE)
He has a small partner today, of course, Matt Lauer of today's show, and he said to Matt this morning, he was a great compromise like Ronald Reagan, he said.
Okay, let's look at this argument with Matt Lauer. (
Start Video Editing)
MATT LAUER, CO-
Moderator, "Today": if you were elected, would you bring an uncompromising brand to the White House?
Okay, Matt, let me disagree with the premise.
I never said no compromise.
In fact, from the first day I was elected, I said that my attitude towards compromise was exactly the same as Reagan's.
What would you do if they gave you half, Reagan saida-loaf?
Answer, you take it and then you come back and get more.
Raul: but, shortly after your election, you also said-quote-"I don't think there is much more compromise that Washington needs.
Cruz: because what Washington doesn't often do is it's going to go backwards. (END VIDEO CLIP)
I don't know what he meant by saying that.
Ronald Reagan had a good deal in 86 on a fairly good tax reform bill.
Since then, he has reached an agreement to save Social Security.
He compromised with my boss Tip O'Neill and Rostenkowski, people like this.
He really compromised.
I don't know what he's talking about is going forward and backward.
What is he talking about?
Dean: The biggest difference between him and Ronald Reagan is that Ronald Reagan has been governor for eight years, so he actually knows how the place works. MATTHEWS: Yes.
He knows nothing.
He has been in the Senate for three years.
All he did was throw a bomb and not pass any bill at all.
This is not a person who really understands the government.
Ronald Reagan did understand.
You may not like his conservative politics, but he understands the government and what it means to be a CEO.
MATTHEWS: Well, my question about this person-and I will continue to raise this person's question-he went out and accused Obama of being influenced by communism because he went to Harvard and he has a professor of communism.
He went to Harvard.
Didn't Ted Cruz Go To Harvard? (CROSSTALK)
Matthews: he refused, somehow. (LAUGHTER)
Matthews: he went after Ke Hagel, who has two Purple Hearts from Vietnam, and he said the guy took $200,000 from Pyongyang from the Communist Party of Korea.
He just threw those things out like he did-I don't think he knows.
I will stay here for three seconds.
I don't think he knows anything about the McCarthy period in this country because he is so blatantly imitating this guy.
BACON: I don't agree with you, just because this guy named Ted Cruz is really smart. (CROSSTALK)
Are you saying he deliberately imitated McCarthy?
BACON: I think he's been using inflammatory language on purpose. (CROSSTALK)
Matthews: call it redbaiting.
BACON: I'm not going there.
MATTHEWS: Well, what do you call Chuck Hagel when you call to take money from North Korea?
BACON: I call it opportunistic. (CROSSTALK)
Matthews: When you call that person, you say, to understand Obama, you have to understand the fact that there are more Communist professors at Harvard than Republicans?
What is it?
What is the information?
Bacon: he wants to win, he wants power. (CROSSTALK)
Matthews: You dare not say it.
You can't listen to me, can you? (CROSSTALK)BACON: No.
I don't think he has any strategy other than getting more power and winning. (CROSSTALK)
I heard the red sound. baiting.
Anyway, Senator Cruz says the media have portrayed him as a madman with explosives tied to his chest.
We actually have. Let`s watch.
He's right. (LAUGHTER)(
Start Video Editing)
Cruz: two cartoons of Republicans in media history.
We're either stupid or evil. (CROSSTALK)
Host Sean hanniti: or both. CRUZ: Or both.
Reagan was stupid, George W, according to media reports.
Bush is stupid, Dan Quill is stupid. Nixon was evil.
Dick Cheney is evil.
By the way, it's better to be stupid.
It would be better if you chose one or the other.
Hanniti: Better than evil? CRUZ: Oh, yes. HANNITY: Yes.
Cruz: I think the media invented the third comic for me in a way, it's a reverse compliment, it's crazy.
Okay, because you're smart.
You went to Harvard and Princeton, or Harvard and Princeton.
CRUZ: Well, so they did everything they could to portray me as a wild animal.
I'm crazy with explosives on my chest. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Matthews: do we call it an interview?
What do you call what we just heard there?
Bacon: he did ask if he was born in the United States. S. or Canada.
So, yes -(CROSSTALK)
Matthews: what do they think is the point?
Bacon: they couldn't think of any point, but he left soon.
Hanniti asked him about Ted Cruz's birtherism in a joking way.
It's polite, obviously not the way they treat President Obama.
But Cruz, I can't-what is he talking about these days, is he trying to compromise?
He closed the government.
Does he think we have amnesia? (CROSSTALK)
Matthews: Have you seen his vote on the nomination of someone like John Kerry who is really uncontested?
He voted against each of them.
This guy dropped a bomb.
He will be very interesting.
No one will take him seriously.
People voted for him because they were excited and angry with Obama.
MATTHEWS: Well, he was here with Obama last night.
Let's take a look at Ted Cruz's missile launch here. Let`s watch. (
Start Video Editing)
Cruz: I think Obamacare is the biggest disaster and the biggest train accident.
I think President Obama is the last president we have ever had.
This is a strange Auville-style double peak, and the president will not say anything about radical Islamic terrorism.
The consistent pattern of Obama and Clinton's foreign policy is to abandon our friends and allies, whether Israel or the United States. K.
We will appease our enemies, both in Canada.
Hanniti: What do you think about the president and his treatment of Prime Minister NEHU and Israel?
Cruz: It's shameful.
This is shameful.
This government is the most opposing government in Israel's history. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Well, you see.
It's complete-he said-it's just a political speech here, with any value.
Value or disadvantage, every button on the right wing of the Gospel, every button, Israel, the whole thing. Netanyahu.
Is Benjamin a victim?
No one thinks he's a victim. (CROSSTALK)
Dean: That's the problem.
The problem is that it is contrary to what some people think.
The Republicans are not crazy. he is crazy.
He is not really crazy, but he is very attractive to those who are not completely there.
This is not a Republican majority.
He won't be nominated, but he will be a hit.
He will change the dynamics of the campaign.
Bacon: But let me add that Governor Walker agrees with everything he said just now.
I'm with him in South Carolina.
He said all those things. Repeal.
Our foreign policy is terrible.
We defend Netanya.
Scott Walker, normal, moderate Scott Walker and Ted Cruz have very little policy difference on most issues.
Matthews: As he said in the War of Charlie Wilson, we will see. (LAUGHTER)
Matthews: because I don't know how far he will go at the party.
Anyway, thank you, Howard Dean.
Thanks, Perry Bacon.
Next: The Supreme Court decided to make Wisconsin votersD. law stand.
This could have a broad impact on Hillary Clinton's 2016 incident.
This is the hard ball of politics. (
Matthews: Back to the hard ball.
The US Supreme Court yesterday declined to hear questions about 2011 of Wisconsin voters. D.
By law, the move now allows controversial regulation to take effect in a timely manner in 2016 presidential elections.
It can pave the way for voter I. D.
Laws in other states across the country.
The Wisconsin case was a victory for Republican supporters, including Governor Scott Walker, who said: "It's good news for Wisconsin voters.
This is a common sense reform that protects the integrity of our voting process, making voting easy and cheating difficult.
But critics say a state is required. issued photo I. D.
Voting is an unreasonable burden that has had a disproportional impact on Africa
Of course, most Americans, poor people and college students vote for the Democratic Party.
When District Judge Lynn Adelman blocked the law last year, he estimated that Wisconsin had about 300,000 registered voters, about 9% of all registered voters in Wisconsin, and lacked qualified voters. D.
By contrast, President Obama, who won 10 electoral votes in Wisconsin in 2012, beat Mitt Romney by 200,000 votes.
Well, according to that simple mast, voter I. D.
The demand could make Wisconsin, which has not voted for the Republican Party for 84 years, more competitive in 2016, in fact easy.
Now, Wisconsin, like seven other states, will impose strict voter I. D. requirements.
North Carolina and Virginia have been swing states in recent presidential elections. They matter.
I am now joining with John Nichols from the "country" from Green Bay and aclus Dale Ho.
Gentlemen, start with John and Dale and tell me what the point is.
I'm looking at the map for next year.
I think it will be a close presidential election.
Hillary is very popular now.
She has an advantage in her fight for nominations.
Republicans are everywhere, but I still think that when it comes down to next October and November, it will be a fierce national struggle for the Electoral College.
What can we do if we see more voters emerge? D.
Law, from the home of the Republican Party, John?
John Nichols, country: it's a big deal, Chris.
This is a big deal, Chris.
You mentioned Election 2012.
If you go back slightly to 2004 and 2000, Wisconsin's presidential campaign is close to 10,000, with 12,000 votes deciding that John Kerry won the state in 04, and Gore won the state in 2000.
This is a very, very divided country.
If you start to disrupt the voting process, you will certainly have an impact if you are more difficult to mobilize voters before the election. This voter I. D.
Law has been their top priority since Scott Walker and Wisconsin Republicans took control of the legislature.
They fought for it for four years.
Now it seems that the court has handed it over to them.
There is a reason why they work so hard.
It's not because Wisconsinites are crying out.
There is no big mobilization to represent this law.
Because they know it's important for President politics.
Matthews: Dale, let me go to you, because in the state of Pennsylvania where I grew up, the big Republicans there, Gleeson and Turzai, these people who openly said, oh, kid, we have laws.
Fortunately, it was rejected by the court in this case, but the Republicans were very blatant about it.
This is a way to overcome demographic changes in this country.
This can protect older white people from people of color.
Your thoughts? It just does.
Dale ho, director of the ACLU Voting Rights program: Well, I think we're in this place right now and politicians think they should try to win the election instead of putting their supporters or trying to convince people, it's really unfortunate in the middle, not doing these things, and I think it's really all about democracy, and instead they're trying to stop people on the other side who they think will support the other candidates to vote on.
This is indeed a shame.
As you have pointed out, some politicians in Pennsylvania have publicly boasted that the purpose of their voter identity law is to try to hand over the state to Mitt Romney in 2012. MATTHEWS: OK.
Well, gentlemen, I promise to keep talking about this, because I think it is American to defend the right to vote, and it is not American to suppress the right to vote.
Thank you anyway, John Nichols.
Thanks to Dale Ho from ACLU.
Next, a new report today said that Israelis have been monitoring Iran's nuclear talks and then providing congressional Republicans with the information they have obtained in an attempt to undermine the whole thing.
Next is the Round Table.
You see the hard ball of politics. (
Matthews: Welcome back to hard ball. U. S. -
Relations between Israel seem to be getting worse and worse.
Yesterday, the White House chief of staff told a group of liberal supporters in Israel that Israel must end its occupation of West Bank land.
Today, a report in The Wall Street Journal said that Israelis monitored negotiations with Iran over its nuclear program.
This afternoon, President Obama said,S.
Can't pretend it's possible to reach two-
National solutions for the next few years. Here he is. (
Start Video Editing)
US President barack obama: Prime Minister natantanya during the campaign
He said that when he was prime minister, Palestine would not establish a state.
I listened to him and understood what he meant.
After that, he noted that he did not say that he would never, but that it was possible to create a range of conditions for a Palestinian state.
But, of course, these conditions cannot be met quickly. (END VIDEO CLIP)MATTHEWS: Wow.
For their part, many Republicans-many Republicans celebrated Netanyahu's political victory last week and largely supported his position in Iran negotiations.
One notable exception is former Secretary of State James. Baker III.
Last night, he was close to the Liberal Party.
Israel's J-Street Group says Netanyahu's actions hurt prospects for a peace deal. (
Start Video Editing)
Former US president James BakerS.
Secretary of State: After the recent election victory, the chances of the two
Of course, given his reversal of the issue on the eve of last week's Israeli election, the National solution seems even more remote.
Keep in mind that three months after he first served as prime minister in 2009, netaniahu shared his vision for the two --state solution.
Since then, as settlement construction continues, his actions have been inconsistent with his words. (APPLAUSE)(END VIDEO CLIP)
Matthews: I attended the round table tonight.
Bob Woodward is the assistant editor-in-chief of The Washington Post.
Nedra Pickler is a White House correspondent for The Associated Press.
Ron finnier is the editorial director of national magazine.
"Bob, we have been talking about the Middle East all our lives.
The argument is always correct on our list, but I have never seen such an open argument about our policy.
It's like in Israel, where they do have open arguments.
It seems that it is OK to challenge the Israeli prime minister in the Democratic Party now.
It's okay to do this.
Bob Woodward, The Washington Post: Well, it's a serious violation, no doubt, but I don't think it will change the fundamentals.
Israel needs America.
The United States needs a democracy in the Middle East, the only one.
So I don't think it will change-it won't be deleted in the history book, simply put.
At this point -(CROSSTALK)MATTHEWS: Yes.
So, what is the possibility of any kind of land being used for peace or land being used for just arrangements, and we can go back to what it was like before the 67-year war?
This does not seem to be on the table.
The president made it clear. It`s gone.
Woodward: Well, it's not on the table since 67. (CROSSTALK)
This is the problem.
I mean, all these people are talking, oh, let's take a look at this.
It's very wise, says Baker, to look like we won't get this.
Well, Netanya has made it very clear.
Matthews: not always.
Woodward: Yes, he's a little sloppy, and he's doing bold, raw political calculations for re-election.
I can say another-many, many other politicians-Matthews: Yes.
Woodward:-who did this in this country.
Matthews: Yes, let's talk about the world. We are pro-
The Israelis of this countryBob`s right.
It won't change.
Basically, we have to take responsibility for anything they do.
This is a world fact.
They are our allies.
They are not our satellites. They are our allies.
So when they say that there are no settlements, there is no cessation of settlements in the West Bank, there is no Palestinian state, there are no two-
The national solution, which gives us a return in the Arab world.
They don't like us.
NEDRA acid washing machine,. P.
White House reporter: well, that's right.
The White House will not let them go because they have changed their position here.
It's funny that everyone goes out and says something real and everyone knows it, but they don't say that to save the relationship.
Why can Candel be accepted now?
Pickler: Well, the relationship is at a new low.
Today, President Obama briefly mentioned the friendship between Israel.
But he said very frankly that this is not singing kumbaya, there is a very real difference, and that Netanyahu's relationship with him is a business relationshiplike.
This is the term he used for Putin.
So this is what it is.
MATTHEWS: Well, Bill Clinton is on the side with the president in this regard.
Democrats have tried to deal with nettanahu.
Former US president Bill Clinton was recently quoted as having problems with Netanya.
Netanyahu will never be part of the peace agreement, he said.
So, it's not outside.
National Magazine editor Ron finnier
Yes, I was moved by this.
First of all, you know, it's obviously starting with Netanyahu stealing US Treasury bonds. S.
Intelligence, using his maid in Congress to try to separate Republicans and Democrats from one of the government's departments, Matthews: Who is his maid?
Matthews: Give me your name.
McConnell and Boehner.
Matthews: how about menides?
Will you call him the maid?
Of course, I will call him the maid on this issue.
Where Are We Now?
So, obviously, there's this bug.
It is clear that since the relationship started with Netanyahu, the relationship is gradually disappearing.
We need an adult here.
I hope the adults in the room will be the president of the United States.
It must still be the president of the United States.
Matthews: he won't stop the battle.
But maybe he should.
Maybe the framework is different.
You give me a standard answer.
What I want to ask is, Obama, why is he continuing this fight? What`s changed?
Some people used to say enough.
Neil: Maybe for the same reason, he decided to give up his struggle with Republicans and try to compromise.
When he arrived at Washington, things became difficult and could not be dealt with, even though he came to the office knowing they would be difficult to deal with, a stubborn party
They don't want to deal with us, Israelis?
He has always known that this is not like what has changed before today's election, so why did he decide to accept the answer he got the day before the election?
They did not stop answering the answer he got afterwards. (CROSSTALK)
I don't agree with you.
I don't think there is a way around it.
I think it's my way or the highway.
Iran has no negotiations, no negotiations, nothing, he said.
In terms of enriched uranium, we must take them back completely.
We have to terminate this project.
This is not feasible, is it?
This is his position.
So, the president decided-there's nothing I can do about it, let's push it aside.
I think the president's response is sincere.
Netanyahu is a very difficult problem to solve, and it's already there-Ron says it's going to go out of the way.
In fact, in the first year or two of the Obama administration, this was a 7/8 drop.
Pickler: What is his motivation to make himself better?
The president is not ready to elect again.
He's tired of the relationship-it's been a long time.
I want to make it clear that I am not saying that we are better, but we must find a solution to this problem. (CROSSTALK)
Bibi will do it.
Who else is going to try to put this relationship-Matthews: It's a very interesting thing for the Democrats because we always think that Israel is the best interest of the Jewish community, in fact, of course, the personal interest, the religious interest, background, Holocaust.
But I think it's the Republican evangelist who drove the train to the right, as you 've heard Ted Cruz say, it's a whole new reality.
From the Bible, Israel has some kind of symbolic meaning for them, right?
They don't want to mess it up at all.
That's right, but as you know, it's not a new problem for the right.
Matthews: For me, it thought it was dramatic.
Woodward: But Ron asked a good question-who is the adult in the room?
Pickler: this will be the next president.
Woodward: do something positive, you know, I looked around the room and the room was empty.
Matthews: I'm waiting to see how Hillary Clinton handles this because she's going to inherit this mess?
Pickler: this will not be resolved in the next two years.
This will be an issue in the campaign.
This will be something you will hear both sides talk about and it will be up to the next president.
If Hillary Clinton wants to be born with this, if she wants to be president, she will come up with a better one than "Oh, I can't deal with"
Matthews: I think so.
But Republicans, I hope they can pay for the ball in a few weeks.
Matthews: they won't bring him into the room.
Matthews: a terrible partisan precedent.
Do they think they will never have a president?
If Republicans have a precedent in the White House, is that a precedent they want?
Matthews: I don't think it should be a political arena.
In any case, the round table will keep in touch with us.
Next, Hillary Clinton wants to start with the media.
I can't hear the reset button from these experts.
This is a place of politics, a hard state.
They 'd better be with Putin. (
MATTHEWS: Well, the chief of the Secret Service, Joseph Clancy, testified again on Capitol Hill that the two agents had been drinking for a night and had their car hit a White House roadblock.
For the first time, he saw police surveillance footage of the incident.
The House Oversight Committee showed a video from the Washington police department.
Clancy was criticized for the way the agency handled the matter, complaining that he was not informed until five days after it happened.
He also announced a new policy in which surveillance videos will be kept for seven days, not just 72 hours.
We will be back soon. (
Start Video Editing)
Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton: No more secrecy.
No more privacy areas.
After all, what's the good for me? (END VIDEO CLIP)
Matthews: We came back with our group, Bob, nerdra and Ron.
Of course, Hillary Clinton has been controversial over personal email servers.
But now, she's trying to leave it all behind.
At dinner with reporters on Monday night, she tried to make it all look interesting and a bit misunderstood.
She's here, former secretary of state. (
Start Video Editing)
Clinton: I know very well that some of you might be a little surprised to see me here tonight.
You know, we can say that my relationship with the media is sometimes complicated. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Well, you know, Bob, she said a lot before, you know, really like her audience, people who really like her, women groups, and so on.
It's an audience that you don't usually think of that likes her.
But she was well treated last night and people were a little laughing at her jokes.
Do you think this is interesting? mail dispute?
Is this an interesting story in itself?
Woodward: No, we were joking-she thought they were gone and they were deleted.
Chinese or Iranians may have them.
Anyone who thinks they have cyber security is deceiving themselves.
Matthews: But you also told me tonight in the green room that unless there is a criminal investigation, it would be difficult for anyone to call them.
Woodward: Yes, I think there is an assumption that there is a request for the Freedom of Information Act, so we will see these things.
She has a privacy statement here.
If you, like some people, compare them to Nixon tapes, in the Nixon tape case, my God, the Supreme Court ruled that he had to hand them over to the grand jury and not to the congressional committee, those who do not request the Freedom of Information Act.
So, I think the possibility of seeing these things is almost zero unless she voluntarily gives up.
She-if you think about it, someone did some very good lawyers and said that I just canceled these requests before I received them, before I received them, because there was a privacy issue.
Matthews: What Nixon can do. WOODWARD: Yes.
Well, Nixon, in fact, if you go to the Nixon Library and say, give me the tape of anything, and if it had nothing to do with the abuse of power or the water gate incident, they would say, there is a national security or privacy statement.
Today, 40 years later.
So, if we see a lot of Matthews, I 'd be happy to take you to dinner with the family: Let's talk about the reset in this regard.
She was able to come back charming-I think there was something there-it was something with chicken and eggs.
In my opinion, you can go back and say that she feels that there are so many folklore that is not good for her, and when she is the first lady of Arkansas, you know, about her hairstyle, wearing glasses or something, I have had enough of this rubbish and white water, she said.
You can argue that she is a person who is defending, or you can say that she is a private person and should not be in public life.
Pickler: Well, let me tell you that a lot of the reporters in that room last night were not those who listened to the old stories you said.
She had the opportunity to build relationships with the media.
Matthews: does the new media feel as aggressive as they should be?
Pickler: of course, even more.
Are you kidding?
Now, in the days when Twitter and rumors spread around, it will be a radical act.
She tried to make the light, a new first step in building a relationship last night.
But there are many other changes besides acknowledging the problem and making a few jokes.
By the way, she did stay after the speech and worked in the room for about 30 minutes.
Matthews: No record?
Pickler: I mean, it's just that people go up and talk to her.
I don't know if anyone is covering it.
Matthews: Ron, I 've always thought of her-I don't know her very well, but she's very likable.
She's not cute enough. -cute.
My question is-most people like her when they know her.
My question is, can she accept Nixon's strategy for 68 years? I'm not going to do a tape show, I'm going to control the media, I'm not going to make myself show up like a politician in New York?
This time, can she escape the punishment of our time?
I think she can get away with it, depending on who the Republicans are bringing up, but it's not a modern, sensible approach.
Look, I 've known her since mid-term. 80s.
I reported her in Arkansas.
She is very cute, very charming, very smart, very cute, very interesting.
As a journalist, she is someone you tend to give doubt and more understanding.
So, the more contact she gives us, I think she has a better chance of communicating her message through us.
The question is-Matthews: you're getting her a lawyer now, right?
Yes, she should start with me.
But the problem is that in an era especially when young Americans demand accountability and good governance, the only way she can do that is to hand over the server to independent scrutiny.
Apparently, all her private emails
No one should see the mail.
Turn it over and she has to hand over the foreign donations that go to the foundation.
I think the two stories are-MATTHEWS: Well, these are very strong demands.
Thanks, Bob Woodward.
Justice Stennis's solution remains.
Because Nixon tried it, he found a party of thirty to do it.
Woodward: You deal with me.
Matthews: Thank you.
You can be judge Stanis.
Thanks, Bob Woodward.
Thank you, Nedra.
Thank you, Ron.
When we come back, let me end with a Republican strategy to offset demographic change in this country.
You see the hard ball of politics. (
Matthews: Let me end tonight's speech with a Republican strategy to offset demographic change.
Things are basic when you think about it.
Okay, we're in America. S.
The population of ethnic minorities is increasing, and the population of ethnic minorities is getting younger and younger, which, over time, will turn white Americans into ethnic minorities.
If you are a Republican, how do you deal with this dilemma?
I mean, given that your party was built on the basis of white seniors.
You make it harder for minorities to vote.
Let's start with Wisconsin, and his voter ID code has just been kissed by Republicans.
Wisconsin, home to Republican National President Reince Priebus, is president of the national campaign for voter repression.
It may also be home to 2016 Republican presidential candidates, Governor Scott Walker.
So we might arrange that for the Republican candidate or for the Reince candidate to defeat Hillary Clinton, the Democratic candidate, in order to reduce the regular old African-American Democrat --American vote.
How about this deal?
For the strategy of Reince Priebus.
Well, starting with Wisconsin, this is a moving place where Abraham's Republican Party was founded and will now be the starting point for Reince Priebus's efforts to contain minority voters.
Richard Nixon's Southern strategy is nothing compared to the Reince Priebus strategy, which makes apartheid --
Thoughtful white people voted for it in 1968, which is nothing compared to the right to kill minorities to vote for their opponents. 2016.
Think about it: does this give Mr. a prize?
This is a hard ball now.
Thank you for being with us.
"Everything about Chris Hayes" is starting now.
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